Read Ch. 9-10 pp.151-207
Post a response by WEDNESDAY 6/10 midnight. Identify yourself by first name only and period. (ex: Ryan, per. 7).
Your response should include a summary, how what you read relates to
what you have learned in AP Biology, and an opinion. You will be
graded, so write thoughtful, well-written responses.
Abby, Period 1
ReplyDeleteThroughout chapter 9 of Ishmael, Ishmael and the man go into depth about a common misconception about the Leavers and the Takers. Ishmael explains that the Takers have split from the Leavers and this happened through an agricultural revolution. Then, Ishmael asks the man to consider how the Gods have the knowledge to rule the world and how destructive this knowledge can be for us humans who believe we are entitled to this information. Only the Takers have this knowledge and it is destroying the world, but the Leavers lack this knowledge and as a group, they are surviving but are effected by the Takers' destructive effects. The Gods have gained the knowledge as to how to rule the world through much trial and error and the story Adam and Eve is very important to the knowledge and how the Takers gained it. Adam translates to man which Ishmael is meant to represent the human race. Once he takes a bite of the "knowledge", he believes he is as good as the Gods and this will cause the ultimate death of the human race. Adam gained knowledge of good and evil from Eve and this destroyed his innocence and doomed the Takers. Then, throughout chapter 10, the man needed to tend to his uncle who made a surprise visit and stayed for over two days. Then, he was swamped with work as his clients began to give him ultimatums on his projects. Afterwards, he went to find Ishmael and eventually found him at a show. He seemed very angry and did not want to talk. It seemed as though he had given up on his fifth pupil, but luckily, he came around. They continued on their journey to talk about the true meaning of culture. It doesn't take much to be considered culture, Ishmael says, as he uses the behavior of chimpanzees as an example. They also start discussing how culture is different for different groups and Ishmael explains that it's because we don't know what works for people yet. The way we live know will seem obsolete to our children and their way of life will seem obsolete to their children and so on.
There is not that much biology throughout these two chapters, but they do touch a bit on evolution and the destructive habits of the human race. If we don't change our ways soon, we will destroy ourselves along with everything else on this planet. As of this point in the book, I am growing a little tired with the plot. Everything just seems to be a conversation and actions rarely occur throughout the book. I would enjoy the book more if Ishmael taught the man a lesson and then had to apply it in the real world. It would feel more realist if they did more than just sit in a room and talk everyday.
WAY TO BE FIRST ABBY
DeleteRichard, Period 7
ReplyDeleteChapter 9 starts out with Ishmael sitting on the guy's side of the glass. Ishmael shows him a timeline and marked 8,000 BC as to where the agricultural revolution began. He illustrates that the revolution wasn’t like the Trojan war, the revolution still affects them today. Ishmael brings up how the Gods are like an adminstration. It seems that every decision they make would be a crime to another. There seems to be no solution that would work out for everyone. But the Gods have the knowledge, of who shall live and die. The book then transitions into the story of Adam. He had the choice between the Tree of life and the knowledge of good and evil. If he ate from the tree, he might have gained the knowledge of the Gods. That tree would destroy him, because Adam would have said “Grow without limit taking all the fire of life that flows through this garden into myself”. Ishmael contrasts human and Gods rule. The Gods ruled for billions of years and the Earth was doing fine, just a few thousand years and humans have brought it to death. Ishmael gives the guy a map of where the agricultural revolution began. He brings up another biblical story of Cain and Abel. Abel’s herders were killed off by Cain’s famers. They populated the Earth, and whenever they needed more food they just took more land. After the guy figured the story of Cain and Abel, Ishmael gives him a mute applause. Ishmael rewinds back to Adam and Eve. When he ate from the Tree of Knowledge they succumbed to the temptation of life. But the knowledge he obtained from the Gods would only bring death. From then on, the humans have been growing at the expense of the world. Adam is a taker. Chapter 10 starts off with the guy back to his life. His uncle arrived without notice and he got one of his molars taken out. When he goes back to Ishmael he finds his classroom to be empty, no gorilla. The eviction staff isn’t very helpful. The guy attempts to find Rachel Sokolow in the yellow pages. Unfortunately, when he arrives at the residence the doorman tells him she’s been dead for 3 months. The guy waited for another ad saying “friends of Ishmael”. The guy eventually tracks Ishmael down to Darryl Hicks Carnival. Ishmael wanted to be left alone at first. The guy is outraged, he doesn’t want to become failure No. 5. Ishmael begins teaching the guy again when he comes into the tent a second time. They start on the definition of culture. The Leaver culture holds a tradition that has been established since ancient times. The Takers, as the generations go by, seem to cut themselves off from their old generation. Ancient customs are nice to the Takers but they don’t want to adopt it into everyday living. The information saved from generation to generation by the Leavers, is, living a way that works well for them. The Takers needed Hammurabi to tell them that. The Leavers knowledge is the ultimate wisdom, however as the Takers are stamping out their culture, that wisdom beings to dwindle.
Chapter 9 and 10 have barely anything to do with biology. It only encompasses history [the agricultural revolution and stories from the first book in the bible Genesis, in which most of the stories have been deemed a myth by modern science. Again it's, a repeat of population dynamics in terms of Cain’s farmers. As soon as they reach their carrying capacity, they keep expanding. Cain and his followers are kind of like an INVASIVE SPECIES.
Chapter 9 and 10 aren’t as interesting as the first few chapters. The laws and history that Ishmael set in place for the guy still need to be applied. It feels as if Quinn is stalling the book. As a Christian, I find it exceptionally interesting on how Quinn is applying his book to the story of Cain and Abel, though there is no fact these exact events happened at the Euphrates river. I will admit, this would be a pretty cool explanation of the agricultural revolution and the bible. I might bring the book to Church.
Chapter 9 starts off with Ishmael appearing on the other side of the glass. They begin their discussion with the timeline of the human culture, and that it took off after the Agricultural Revolution. Ishmael then tells a story with the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, and how the gods forbade the humans to eat the tree because it would have resulted in the humans thinking that they had godly powers, and therefore were gods. From that story they concluded that humans always think their way of life is right. The next story in chapter 9 was of two men, Cain and Abel, who represented the Taker and Leaver culture. Cain (taker culture) had to kill Abel (Leaver culture) in order to expand his agricultural production. But, since the Leaver culture did not fully die out and the Taker culture did not fully succeed, humankind chose to present that shortcoming as their own creation myth. The last story they talked about in chapter 9 was the story of Adam and Eve. Ishmael explained that the gods banished the humans from the garden of life because the humans were trying to use the gods' wisdom as their own, so they were forced to get their own food through farming. The narrator questioned why Cain was born first over Abel and why Eve's named means "life" rather than "woman". Ishmael answers by saying that Cain and Abel were symbols of how the Taker culture is overshadowing the Leavers culture, and that in the third story, humans decided to grow and expand without limits, so they named the woman that because she is the provider of life. In chapter 10, the narrator gets sidetracked and misses several visits to Ishmael, and when he returns he finds out that Ishmael is gone. The narrator goes around to many people who might have known where he was, and eventually found Ishmael in a sideshow cage forty miles from his original home. Ishmael refuses to talk about his personal life, so the narrator leaves and then comes back the next day to start the next lesson. First, they ponder over the word "culture". The narrator defines it as what is passed on from generation to generation. They both come to the conclusion that the Taker culture passes down through each generation better ways to produce things, while the Leaver culture passes down ways to live better. From that knowledge, they can see that humankind is very focused on looking for the best way to produce things, not just multiple good ways, and that when a species goes extinct, certain knowledge is gone forever.
ReplyDeleteThis chapter has little biology in it, other than the ongoing discussion of evolution.
As the chapters go on I am finding myself becoming more disinterested in this novel (sorry cvitale). The plot is slow and I think the facts and stories being told are rarely interesting. I am just not hooked anymore, but I still hope for the best for Ishmael to be free and the narrator to having a point to his life.
Alexis, period 7
ReplyDeleteThis was a long section, and it had a lot of information. It starts with the idea that the agricultural revolution hasn’t ended, but it is still evolving, so we shouldn’t separate ourselves from it. Ishmael and the man then go on for a while about how the gods acquired the knowledge they needed to rule the world. They acquire this knowledge by eating a certain fruit, but then they just go back to the same practices they had before, but everything was now justified in their eyes. Then Adam comes to the world, and they are scared that if he also eats the fruit, he will essentially overthrow the gods. This kind of parallels how humans are scared to be dominated by another race. Somewhere in this section the man finally comes to a conclusion on his own (!!!) and it seems like he is getting much smarter and might be “running” the sessions by the end of the book. I got a little confused when they were spending a lot of time talking about Cain and Abel and the people of the Arabian Peninsula, but maybe it’s because I’m not religious or good at ancient history, but I didn’t really understand the lesson Ishmael was trying to teach there. Later, the man has to miss a bunch of days due to family visiting and his job and a dentist appointment, and when he comes back, Ishmael had been evicted. He finds the Sokolow’s house, but the guard at the door tells the man that he doesn’t know where Ishmael is. The man spends a while tracking him down, and eventually finds him at a carnival. Ishmael wants to be left alone, but the man goes back later to talk to him. They finish their conversation about how cultures came to be and “cultural amnesia” (which I thought was a cool idea) and then Ishmael decides he is too tired and cold to continue. Ishmael is definitely going to be worn down through this carnival and I think it will give the man a chance to really take over, but I hope he and Ishmael stay on good terms.
Ryan Beier Period 1
ReplyDeleteChapter 9 starts out with Ishmael sitting on the other side of the glass. He then starts talking about how the “taker” culture originated with the agricultural revolution. Ishmael then says that the taker origin is actually told by the “leavers” to explain things. He then tells a version of that, he says that one day that the gods were arguing about Earth. Each god wanted to give special advantages to different things, and then argue about if they should do anything at all. They then eat some magic tree that gives them knowledge of what they should do. He then says that the gods were worried that the humans would also eat the magic tree and gain godly wisdom, but since humans aren’t actually gods, their control or authority would be false. The gods decided that the humans shouldn’t be able to do that and banned them from eating the tree because it would result in human ceasing to exist. Guy then looks through different holy books to find an explanation but can’t find one. But the takers don’t know this story because they will always believe that they have a right to rule the earth. Ishmael tells guy that the Semites created this story. He then shows guy a map of the farmers expansion in the agricultural revolution, that land was always taken from herders. Guy is then told to read a story about Cain and Abel. The jist is that Cain kills Abel representing that takers kill leavers. The leavers never fully died out because Christianity came through or something. The leavers believe that the gods punished the takers for taking the wisdom, and that punishment was having to farm. Ishmael then has to explain to guy that Cain and Abel are symbols. Then after reexplaining, guy agrees with Ishmael that the taker perspective is better. Chapter 10 rolls around with guy missing Ishmael meetings because of nothing important. Then finds out that Ishmael was evicted. Guy then goes on a search for Ishmael by speaking to the Solokows, and different companies or something. Guy finally finds Ishmael in a carnival but Ishmael refuses to speak to him and doesn’t want guy in his personal life. So guy then bribes a worker to be able to talk to Ishmael the next day and Ishmael goes off again. They talk about cultures and how the takers and leavers leave different ideas for their next generations.
There is almost no biology in these chapters, except for some mentions of evolution.
The book is starting to lose me as it does everytime they talk about “takers” and “leavers”, not that it doesn’t make sense, it’s just, ah I don’t know. And in comparison to the previous two chapters, these ones don’t leave me with a lot of new ideas and thoughts.
In Chapter, 9, the man finds that Ishmael has decided to remove the glass barrier, and now the two sit in the same room as they discuss. When discussing a timeline of Taker history, including history from the Leaver's perspective, Ishmael first has the man ponder the gods' view of these events and then relates their discussion to the Bible. Ishmael believes that part of the Bible is Leaver history, as seen in the story of Abel and Cain. Here, Cain (a Taker), a farmer, decides to murder his southern neighbor, Abel (a herder), so that his people have more land to expand. This is stereotypical of all of Taker history; Taker's take more than they need, and thus grow exponentially, creating a greater need to expand and take more. However, the Takers, not thinking much about it, have adopted this story from the Leavers by incorporating it in the Bible. After a visit from his family, the man then finds that Ishmael, having been evicted from his office, has joined a traveling circus. However, this downsizing has made Ishmael sad and so he doesn't want to continue teaching the man for a while. After checking into "the cheapest motel that he could find," the man bugs Ishmael until he continues his lessons, now talking about what Takers and Leavers perceive as their culture.
ReplyDeleteThere is not much biology, except for supporting evolution (Ishmael explains that creationist Takers are unwilling to acknowledge that their ancestors were once slime).
Just as the book starts to pick up, it begins to plateau, as Ishmael has yet to make any significant impact in the man's life or thoughts.
Zack, Period 1
ReplyDeleteChapter 9 begins with Ishmael out from behind the glass where he usually is. They then talk about human culture for a bit but then Ishmael tells a story about the growth of the takers. It starts off with gods debating on which animals should die and survive and they can’t come to a conclusion so they eat from a magical tree which tells them what to do. When humans come around the gods are like no way are those filthy humans touching our tree so they forbid the humans from eating it. From this story Ishmael explains that the takers always think they are right and are too stubborn to listen to anyone else. Then Ishmael has mr. man tell the story of Cain and Abel. In this story Cain, a taker, has to kill the leavers like Abel to expand his way of life. But not all the leavers died or became takers so takers use this as a part of their creation myth. Then the two talk about their final story for this long chapter which is the story of Adam and Eve. They talk for a while about seemingly meaningless things like why Eve is named Eve and they come up with that Eve means life because after eating the fruit the takers made the decision to expand without limits. In chapter 10, Mr. man starts getting lazy and blows off Ishmael for a while and then when he goes back he finds Ishmael is missing. Mr. man looks a lot of places, meets some people, and eventually finds Ishmael at a sideshow. When mr. man tries to talk to him Ishmael gets all secretive and acts like a 7th grade girl and gets mad at mr. man. Mr. man then uses some sketchy tactics to see Ishmael and they pick up their lesson where they left off. They talk about the Adam and Eve stuff again and then Ishmael has mr. man define the word culture. Mr. man says some pretty good answers like what is passed on from generation to generation and Ishmael agrees. They then talk about how in taker culture better ways to live better are passed on from generation to generation while in the leaver culture ideas are passed on about how to live. Ishmael then says how only the leavers are subject to evolution and how they’ve been evolving since humans formed.
There is little biology in these two chapters except a little on evolution and how humans are destroying the planet.
I’m really getting tired of this book. I feel like in each chapter Ishmael talks about the same exact things just using different stories. Look, I get humans are destroying the earth and that the taker culture is bad but maybe instead of just telling the man what’s wrong Ishmael could tell him what to do differently in his life.
Kira Period 7
ReplyDeleteThis chapter begins with Ishmael and another lesson. He talks about the agricultural revolution and how it is still evolving. He also relates it to the Taker’s culture. The next topic is the gods and how they knew what to do when ruling the world. Some knowledge was acquired by eating a fruit, which is why the gods were scared when Adam came to Earth because if he ate the fruit he could be on the same power level as the gods. So the gods did what they could and banned humans from eating the fruit. After some discussion on the Taker’s opinion on that story, that humans actually do have the right to rule the Earth, Ishmael introduced to the story of Cain and Abel. This story symbolizes that the Takers kill the Leavers that is portrayed when Cain kills Abel. The result of the Takers doing so was a punishment of farming. From an abstract perspective, Cain and Abel are more symbols than anything else. In the next chapter, the man decides to skip his meeting with Ishmael and when he returns, Ishmael is no longer in his usual spot. Eventually, he finds Ishmael at a show but they can not carry out their conversation normally there, so they meet again in private to return to their lessons. The important theme of this new lesson is culture. Ishmael asks the man to define the word and he comes up with things that are passed on from one generation to the next. The answer pleases Ishmael and then he brings the Takers and Leavers back in. Takers pass down the better life styles while Leavers pass down only the ideas of how to live.
There is not much biology in this section except for the usual bits on evolution and how things are passed down from generation to generation.
The story is still intriguing at some points, however I find that Ishmael is getting a little repetitive in his lessons. I feel as if he needs to start bringing in new ideas and not just new stories and he should maybe expand his own views instead of just trying to get the man to see what he sees.
Clare, Period 7
ReplyDeleteIshmael and the narrator discuss the how the Agricultural Evolution kick-started the timeline of human culture. Ishmael then tells biblical stories. One was the story about the Tree of Good and Evil. Humans are tempted to eat from the tree because they believe that they will be godly afterwards. The Gods forbade humans from eating from the tree to prevent them from believing they are God. Ishmael explained that the gods banished Adam and Eve because they wanted to have as u=much power as the gods. Ishmael says that Cain and Abel were symbols of how the Taker culture is overshadowing the Leavers culture. In chapter 10, the narrator gets distracted and doesn’t come visit Ishmael for awhile. He comes back to discover that Ishmael is gone. The narrator later finds Ishmael in a sideshow cage forty miles away. At first, Ishmael seemed angry, but he later came around to talking. Ishmael says it does not take much to be considered culture. The two also talk about culture is different for different groups because people don't know what works for us yet. Our culture now will seem different to our children.
There is not much biology in these chapters, except for the mentioning of biblical stories. Many biblical stories about the creation of man has been disproved by the study of biology (evolution).
Although the individual points Ishmael makes are interesting, the book grows monotonous because all the two do is telepathically communicate in the room. One of the most interesting things so far is when Ishmael gets put in the cage.
Grace Period 7
ReplyDeleteIshmael talks about the agriculture revolution and the evolution of it. He also talks about gods and tells stories from the bible. One is the story of Adam and Eve and how humans were tempted to have as much power as a god. Another story is the story of Cain and Abel and how the takers culture is taking over the leaver culture. Then the guy doesn’t visit Ishmael for a while and when he finally does ishmael is gone. At first when the guy finds Ishmael he seems angry but then Ishmael starts talking about culture and how they’re all different and how the culture no will be different from our children’s.
There isn’t really biology in this section but snidbits of evolution as usual. Ishmael is boring and annoying me now because he thinks he knows everything when he really is just a big old gorilla. He just keeps repeating the same lessons over and over and over and I’m done with him, he needs to chill and stop being so cynical towards humans just because he’s so jealous he can’t be as amazing as us. The only thing he has that brings him close to being as good as us is opposable thumbs and frankly he’s just a know it all and i don’t appreciate it.
Chris D Period 7
ReplyDeleteSo this chapter starts out with Ishmael on the other side of the glass and the dude is really freaked out, but then he gets used to it. So then Ishmael strated talking about how the agricultral revolution never ended and it is still going on. So Ishmael started exlpaining how the takers diverged from the leavers in the fertile cresent and the agricultural revolution. Also he talked about if the god did one thing to benifet a species, another species would be pissed at them, so the gods found this super cool tree that gave them wisdom and then they figured out how to fix their problem, they gave one day to the deer and another to the lion. so one is happy one day and the other is happy the next day. Then Adam and Eve ate the tree and became ignorant and thought they had the power of the gods but they really didn't and that was the start of the agricultral revolution.So then Adam had these 2 kids, Cain and Abel. So Cain was a Farmer (Taker) and Abel was a Herder (Leaver). So Cain killed Abel a for more room to farm. And that is exactly what the takers did, and kept doing, and still are doing. So then the next Chapter, the guy was really busy with work and the dentist and stuff and he finnally came back and Ishmael was evicted. So he went on this huge hunt for him and finally found him at a carnival. Ishmael kinda ignored him a little. Then the man came back and talked to him again about how the leavers pass down their life style and heritage generation to generation but the takers don't. The Takers don't look back, they dont care about the past, its in the past.
So Biology wise, there's not much. Its mostly using creationism as a huge analogy to taker trace taker orgins.
So its pretty cool cause they use bible stories and stuff like that like a big analogy, and it makes you think, maybe thats where the stories came from. It was sad that Ishmael was evicted and I hope he finds a new home outside of the circus, maybe the man can be his new Walter.
Savannah, Period 1
ReplyDeleteAt the beginning of Chapter 9, The Man notices that Ishmael is no longer on the other side of the glass, but rather, on his side. They then begin to talk about the Agricultural revolution and it is still occurring. Then, the Takers enacted a story of the Leavers. Before Ishmael tells a story, The Man finally realizes how freaking weird this all is. They say that the Takers and the Gods have a knowledge to rule the world that the Leavers don't have. HEY THERES MY NAME!!!!!!!!! (Im nice and pleasant btw.) Ishmael then goes into this long complicated story about the Gods and them making animals. They ate from the tree of knowledge and suddenly knew how to rule the world and who would live each day and who would die. They then find Adam and decide that he is much like them, and they would teach him their way of life as a child, and then have him discover himself that he will live as long as the planet shall. However, they begin to worry that Adam will believe himself on the same levels as the gods. The Man realizes this is never described in the Bible, and Ishmael explains the Takers do not understand, but it makes sense. If the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is the most essential for man to rule the world, it makes sense the Gods would not want man to have it. They then elaborate on how things came to be this way: The Takers know what is wrong and right and what they are doing is right, so they will go to any length to make it happen. We then established that the authors of the bibles were the Simates. He then decides to go walk over and grab an Atlas super casually and gorilla-like, and scare the life out of The Man. Now, he states that the Takers were born within the Leavers, and were very irrelevant at this point. After reading a section of the Bible, The Man realizes the Takers were killing the Semites in order to expand. When The Man explained how the Semites came up with the Bible, Ishmael actually isn't super conceited for once and applauds. Since Eve offered the fruit to Adam, She is called "Life" rather than "Woman", as she gave him the temptation to live without limit. They then go on to state this story has such a strong resonance with the Taker culture because he was identified as one of their own. In chapter 10, The Man's uncle comes to town and stays for longer than expected. He then had to do work and got a molar, so he had to have it taken out. Basically, he had to do all of the stuff that he couldn't do sitting in a chair with a gorilla every day all day. When he finally got back to his daily sit-in-an-empty-room session, he realized Ishmael had been evicted. He then finds him in a Carnival, but he's super sassy and rude. He then leaves and checks into a cheap motel. He then bribes the guy to let him come into the Carnival room with Ishmael and they talk about culture. They then go on to say we are not conscious that we follow tradition.
There is not much biology in this section. There is some evolution and predator-prey relationships. They also relate to the Bible a bit and the Fertile Crescent.
I feel like the book starts to get repetitive. But I kind of find it fun cause its like the gorilla is getting all sassy with the human. It's like who's the boss now? But anyways, I think the information in the book is just starting to get old, I'm getting a bit bored with his conceited teachings. I feel like they are useful, he should just speed them up a little bit. I'm just waiting for that aha moment when everything he has been saying throughout the book fits together. I love how sassy Ishmael is, though.
Sabrina, Period 7
ReplyDeleteIshmael begins the chapter outside the glass and near the narrator. They continue to talk about human culture and how the agricultural revolution is still taking place and spreading through the world. The story Ishmael tells begins with the gods discussing what they should do with the world. Worldly knowledge was given to them when they ate the fruit of the tree and realized that humans would try and eat the fruit as well and gain the knowledge. However, they wouldn’t use this wisdom correctly and believe that as long as they could justify doing something, it was right. The gods then realized that humans should be forbidden to eat from the magic tree because they would abuse the knowledge and furthermore result in the end of the human race. Ishmael’s point is that Takers won’t ever believe that they are wrong in what they do and won’t listen to or consider anyone else’s points. His next story is about Cain and Abel (the taker and leaver culture), and how Cain attempted to kill off Abel in order to keep his method of herding instead of agriculture. This symbolizes how the takers tried to kill the leavers. The leavers were never extinguished and the takers use this story as their creation myth. They then chat about who Adam and Eve really were and where Eve got her name (which means life). In chapter 10, the narrator skips his meeting because a member of his family is in town and then when he goes back to the lessons he cannot find Ishmael in the normal building. Soon enough encounters him at a traveling circus where Ishmael refuses the man’s offer to stay with him. Then after some bickering they return to teaching and learning about how ideas are passed on through generations and how new ideas will continue to shine through.
In this chapter, I didn’t find much biology except for some about evolution and a lot about religion.
I didn’t enjoy these chapters as much because I am getting tired of the way the book is written, and am frequently finding myself lost with what is currently happening. I found chapter 9 to be too long and lost my interest. However I want to see what happens at the end and how this will all relate to Ishmael’s final point. I can also tell that Ishmael and the man have some tension between them and I’m finding myself getting annoyed at them for the bickering and smart answers.
In the beginning, the man comes to the realization that Ishmael is actually on his side of the glass!!!!! This was an extreme shock. They then discuss the agricultural revolution and evolution and the world. There was a story about Cain and Able and they then discuss culture.
ReplyDeleteThe slight discussions on biology come out when they discuss evolution. Also Ishmael is a gorilla which is an organism which is sorta biology.
Personally, this book is a bore. It is repetitive and irrelevant to my life.
Owen Period 1
ReplyDeleteChapter 9 begins with Ishmael outside of the glass, sitting near the man. They start by talking about the agricultural revolution and how it was a turning point in human history and it is continuing to spread. Then he tells a story to the man about how the gods were unsure of how to run things, like who should live and who should die. In order to decide they ate from the Tree of Knowledge, which allowed them to make the decision. When humans came along, the gods decided it would be best to keep the humans from the Tree. They thought that humans would try to assume a false authority over the world with the knowledge from the Tree. A concept which is difficult for the takers, though easy for the leavers to comprehend. They he goes on about stories such as Adam and Eve and how they desired to be like the gods as well as the story of Abel and Cain. Cain symbolizes the takers, who will kill Abel and the leavers to expand agriculture. However, the leavers were never really killed off. In chapter 10, the man is unable to visit Ishmael for a few days because a relative is saying with him, as well as a few other events that kept him from their normal sessions.However, when he returns he finds that Ishmael is no longer in the building. After searching and placing ads, he finds him him at a traveling carnival. Ishmael though, does not seem happy to see him and refuses to talk to him. However the man returns the next day and Ishmael picks off where they left off. They then talk about culture and how it is what is passed on to later generation. The leavers have a unique culture that is lost forever with them, while the taker's culture passes down the right/ better way to do things. The man connects this to takers being dependent on laws and prophets.
The only real biology is small references to evolution, as most of it is about creationism in these chapters.
I am still enjoying the book and it is still bringing up very interesting ideas. However, it is getting a little repetitive, with the same format of there encounters and the similar ideas and stories, as well as Ishmael dragging some things out. However, the change of scenery was nice in chapter 10 as it provided a change from the normal course so far.
Sarah, Period 7
ReplyDeleteIn chapter 9 of Ishmael, Ishmael is sitting on the man’s side of the glass. Ishmael then shows the man a timeline that is carefully marked with the year of the Agricultural Revolution. He makes it very clear that this was not just a random revolution. In fact, it is still very relevant today. They then go on to discuss the Gods and what the Gods do and don’t know. After, they begin to discuss the story of Adam. Adam is given two choices: the tree life and the knowledge of good and evil. Eating from the tree of life would help him gain knowledge, but it could later destroy him. The two then go on to talk about the differences between human rule and Godly rule. The story then transitions back into the Agricultural Revolution when Ishmael gives the man a map showing him exactly where the revolution took place. The two then talk about yet another biblical story, the one of Cain and Abel. Ishmael then transitions back to Adam and Eve to identify what would happen if Adam ate from the tree of knowledge. He says that if he ate from this tree, it would result him being unable to resist the temptation of life. Chapter 10 begins with talking about the man’s personal life. When his uncle arrived at his house, he got a molar removed. Then, the man misses several visits with Ishmael and when he goes back to the room, it appears that Ishmael is missing. When the two meet again, they have a great discussion over the word “culture.” In this conversation, they mention the Takers and the Leavers and how they have different beliefs for what is to come in the next generations.
There was a little bit of biology in this section. It again referenced the Agricultural Revolution, which we mentioned in class to be a major turning point in the study of biology. They also indirectly mentioned evolution when they were talking about what is to come in the following generations.
I enjoyed this section. Instead of just the two of them talking about different big questions of life, things happened between the two of them. I felt bad for the man when he went back to Ishmael and Ishmael was missing.
Maddie, Period 7
ReplyDeleteIshmael is finally on the other side of the glass!!!!! He shows the man a timeline and then uses a bible reference. Ishmael says that he people believe they are the smartest organisms, therefore the most fit to rule the world. Then he tells a story involving gods. Adams comes around. Because Adam thought he was the exception of the rules, he ate from the tree. The ape says people don't get why Adam couldn't eat from the tree and he says it is because people think they are superior, which is obviously true (I mean take a look at society). Then there is a story about the Semites, the Leavers. At the end of the chapter they figure out that Adam is not necessarily a representation of mankind, but simply the first Taker. For the first time, reality sets in and the narrator has personal problems. When he finally goes back, Ishmael is gone. The man goes to find Rachel, but she died. He thinks that she didn't continue paying for the space. A long time passes, but the narrator finally finds Ishmael in a carnival. That got my heart pumping the most out of the entire book, let me tell you. After some bribery and hatred, Ishmael continues with the man. Mother Culture only produces. Takers destroy the Leaver's culture and they lose wisdom.
There isn't really any bio. I think.
Ishmael is kind of talking about closely related things over and over, but he is a talking ape so I'll let it slide. I got really upset when Ishmael wasn't there because he is smarter than most people I know and it would be a shame for him to be lost forever. I'm glad he's back.
#replyblog
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DeleteAaron, Period 1
ReplyDeleteThe sexual tension is immediately set to an all-time high as the chapter kicks off, as Ishmael chooses to be on Dummkopf’s side of the glass. Is Ishmael making a move on him? Dummkopf is wary, as he has never received love from anyone before, much less a gorilla. Such is the life of a neckbeard, which, while it is never explicitly said he is one, is highly implied through a wealth of information about his personality and intelligence. Ishmael goes on to explain a story in which the gods determine what is good and evil after assimilating with the mind of a morally superior fruit. It is at this point that I accidentally fell asleep for two hours. I must have fallen into a nightmare within that dream, as upon waking up I found that I had 45 more pages of this “gobbledygook” to read. The gods reason that their new pet, Adam, shouldn’t eat the fruit because his digestive tract isn’t developed enough to extract morality from his food. It will just make him pretentious. Ishmael talks about how biblical story about this Cain guy and Abel may have been pre-Jew propaganda or something, which makes me picture a 6000 BC communist Russia for some reason. The 6000 BC farmers thought they were hot shit with their newfangled “agriculture”, which they used as an excuse to water their gardens with Semites. Some more words on the pages happen and Dummkopf leaves for the day, not having picked up on Ishmael’s hints. Now in a deep depression, Ishmael sells his body to the circus. Dummkopf tracks him down and talks to the gorilla in front of a group of sane people, as if to add humor to the narrative. Ishmael is embarrassed about his social ineptitude for a page or so and then makes up with him, unfortunately. Words, words, words, culture evolves between generations, words, words, gee it sucks that the Indians are dead, more words, Ishmael gets cold and decides the chapter should end.
These chapters contain an excellent example of fruit neurology and ethics, a concept discussed primarily in chapter 48 of our textbooks. There’s some stuff about evolution and interspecies mating rituals, too.
These chapters had words and the words were wording. I’m finding it increasingly hard to enjoy the narrative as there isn’t really much of a story and my own cynicism is required to pulverise this dead horse about pretentiousness. I’m starting to feel bad about bashing the story as I may just not looking at it the right way in order to enjoy it.
Kunal Sengupta Period 7
ReplyDeleteIn Chapter 9, it begins with the narrator walking in to see Ishmael leaning against a glass. Ishmael starts by reviewing the human timeline. Then, Ishmael tells the narrator about a story about how gods controlled the world. When the humans came along, they basically made the decision that they had to stay away from the tree of knowledge. They believed that humans would take power over all other animals. The takers couldn’t understand this concept however the leavers could. Then, he talks about Cain and Abel. Cain symbolizes the takers and Abel is a leaver. The narrator comes back the next day and Ishmael picks off where they ended the day before. Both of them discuss the evolution of culture.
There aren’t many references to bio in this chapter. This book is starting to get slightly boring although some parts are still interesting.
Surina, Period 1
ReplyDeleteAt the beginning of chapter 9 the guy finds that Ishmael is sitting on cushions instead of being semi hidden. The two of them then start to review the timeline of human history and they then come to the conclusion that the Taker culture took off after the Agricultural revolution and has been spreading ever since. Ishmael then tells a story about how gods decided to eat from the Tree of Knowledge to figure who lives and who dies. However, when humans arrived the gods were worried because they knew that humans would want to eat from the same tree. But since humans were not gods the knowledge they would gain from the tree would be false. Because of this the gods decided to forbid humans from eating from the tree. The guy tries to find out why specifically and he gets worked up over this because he believes that humans have the right. Ishmael points out that something fundamentally wrong with humans is that they believe their way of life is better and must be imposed upon everything else. Ishmael then talks about how the agriculturists had to take land from the herders in order to expand. He compares this to the story of Cain and Able where Cain represents the Takers and Abel represents the Leavers. Then Ishmael urges the guy to figure out why the Leavers came up with all these stories about the Takers. The guy satisfies him by saying that since the Takers were acting so differently the Leavers were confused. They then came up with the idea that the Takers were trying to use the word of god, but the gods got angry and banned them from the garden of life. Therefore, the Takers were forced to harvest their own food. Ishmael then go on to discuss the symbolism behind Cain and Abel and the meaning of Eve's name. Ishmael explains that the stories make more sense from the Leaver's perspective. After that, in chapter 10 the guy gets sidetracked by other responsibilities and fails to see Ishmael for a while. When the guy goes back he discovers that Ishmael has been evicted. The guy tries to find Rachel, but her butler informs him that she has died and someone else must have helped Ishmael out. After placing a personal ad to no avail, the guy checks the zoos and then the carnivals. He finds Ishmael in a sideshow cage, but as the guy tries to help him Ishmael says he doesn't want him butting into his personal life. The guy then leaves, dejected. Then the guy goes back to visit and immediately Ishmael continues his teachings and they summarize everything they said previously. The two of them then define culture and go into talking about the different types of information. They find that Takers just want to know one right way to do things. Ishmael explains that the Leavers are subject to evolution and when a species become extinct a certain culture is lost.
There wasn't much bio in these two chapters. It was a lot of religious stories.
At this point I am just waiting for Ishmael's persona life to come into play. The fact that he is now part of a carnival is... interesting, but I am dying to know more.
Griffin Wyckoff, period 7
ReplyDeleteThis chapter begins with the man noticing that Ishmael is not on the other side of the glass anymore, he is rather on his side. They go on to talk about the agricultural revolution, and the man is now freaked out by all of this new information. He then goes on to tell the man that if god gave a species an advantage, then the other species would be mad at him. He then went on to talk about the tree of good and evil. He then talks about Adam and Eve and how they were banished for eating from the tree and wanting to have the power of gods. In the next chapter the man does not return for a little, but when he does Ishmael isn’t there. He later finds him in a cage performing a sideshow. He is angry but soon opens up and talks to the man. They talk about culture and how our culture now will seem very different to our children.
There is little to no biology in these chapters, it only appears when they mention evolution.
I don’t really like the book, it was intriguing at first but now it is talking about random topics and it is not really going anywhere.
Kate, Period 1
ReplyDeleteChapter 9 opens with the man realizing that Ishmael is no longer behind a barrier. The two are now sitting in the same room, closer. Ishmael continues to discuss the timeline of the history of the Takers, including a drawn-out timeline. This timeline is shown from the perspectives of both Takers and Leavers. Then, in a switch of perspective again, Ishmael asks the man to envision what God might think of these events. He further ties in the Bible with the timeline of events. He does this by discussing the story of Abel and Cain (from the Bible), and how this is part of the history of Leavers. The Taker, Cain, is a farmer. He decides to murder his neighbor named Abel. Abel is a herder. Cain kills Abel for the sole purpose of gaining more territory. They are always taking more than they really need. This is the cause of the Taker population growing exponentially. After a brief brake, the man finds that Ishmael had been evicted. For a place to stay, he is forced to join the traveling circus and become to depressed about this change that he does not want to continue teaching the man, at least for a time. But the man convinces Ishmael to continue. Ishmael continues his lessons with what Leavers and Takers think are their culture.
This chapter continues to include the theory of evolution, this time from different perspectives. Additionally, it mentions how the Taker population is growing exponentially.
My issues with the book are that A) I took issue with some of the points last chapter, which make me question the points that it continues to make, and B) it is getting repetitive and drawn-out and C) no real plan to change the world has been introduced, even just an introduction. That being said, it is worth it to read what Ishmael has to say.
This chapter begins with Ishmael on the other side of the glass, giving another lesson. He talks about the agricultural revolution and how it is still evolving and changing. He relates this to the taker culture. The next topic is the Gods and how they knew what to do when ruling the world. He says some knowledge was gained by eating a fruit, which is why the Gods were scared when Adam came to Earth because if he ate the fruit he could be as powerful as the gods. As a result, the gods banned humans from eating the fruit. After some discussion on the Taker’s opinion on that story, that humans actually do have the right to rule the Earth, Ishmael introduced to the story of Cain and Abel. This story symbolizes that the Takers kill the Leavers that is shown when Cain kills Abel. The result of the Takers doing so was a punishment of agriculture. From one point of view, Cain and Abel are more symbols than anything else. In chapter 10, the man decides to skip his meeting with Ishmael and when he returns, Ishmael is no longer in his usual spot. Eventually, he finds Ishmael at a show but they cant carry out their conversation normally there, so they meet again in private to return to their lessons. The new lesson is on culture. Ishmael asks the man to define the word culture and he comes up with things that are passed on from one generation to the next. This answer pleases Ishmael and he brings the Takers and Leavers back in. Takers pass down the better life styles while Leavers pass down only the ideas of how to live.
ReplyDeleteOnly small references to biology, such as evolution, but overall not much. There is of course the theme of saving the environment.
I totally agree with the books messages but I don’t love the book. It is pretty repetitive, because all the lessons that the author wants to display are given directly to the reader by Ishmael’s lectures. In a normal book, the reader would infer the lessons based off of the plot and the characters actions. The book would be more exciting if got its point across in a more indirect way.
This reminds me of ishmael: rustledjimmies.com
Chapter ten begins with the narrator entering Ishmael's office, to find him outside of his cage. This could mean he is becoming more comfortable with the narrator. The narrator and him launch quickly into a discussion about Adam and Eve-- or, really just Adam. Ishmael explains how the Takers splits from the Leavers 8,000 years ago, and the agricultural revolution is still going on. Ishmael and the narrator come to the conclusion that since Adam ate from the tree of knowledge, he took the Gods' knowledge of what is to live and what is to die and sacrilegiously used it for himself, killing off all his competition for food (Ishmael claims that why eating from the tree of knowledge was a sin is unknown to all biblical scholars, but this just isn't true-- any biblical scholar would be able to tell you this and more). Ishmael and the narrator also decide that Adam is a good protagonist, because he represents mankind, and thus everyone can relate to him (I find the lack of any real real mention of Eve frustrating). In chapter 10, tragedy strikes. A series of unfortunate events leads to the narrator missing his appointments for several weeks, which in turn leads to his being sold off to a carnival. The narrator hunts him down, and in the process, learns that Rachel Solowicz is dead. He finally meets Ishmael at the carnival, and Ishmael reluctantly allows him to buy his freedom. They then continue the lesson, with a conversation about culture. Culture is the sum of what has been passed down through generations-- beliefs, assumptions, rituals, etc. Human culture began with homo habilis, and was passed down all the way to homo sapiens sapiens (our species of human). The Takers then broke from this culture, which other Leaver cultures did not-- for example, tribes in Polynesia. Ishmael connects this to how Takers base their culture off of laws and and prophets, without nature to guide them.
ReplyDeleteThere is the usual connection to Biology in these chapters-- somewhat weak, but still present, with the study of anthropology as the major link.
I started Chapter 9 expecting to be as bitter and bored as I had been with other chapters, but I found Chapter 10 surprisingly engaging. There is character development for the narrator, when he prioritizes himself over Ishmael and ends up nearly losing him, and for Ishmael himself, who finds himself back in a menagerie and is unwilling to leave-- perhaps because he knows that at least there, he'll be only an animal, indebted to no one. I appreciated the additional action and conversation.
It posted as anonymous for some reason-- this is Betsy
DeleteChris Period 7
ReplyDeleteI'm getting tired of reading about this authors trip on hallucinogenics. Now the narrator walks in to Ishmael expecting Mr. Narrator to draw him like one of his french girls. The narrator also finds out that Ishmael owns like every bible, which is stupid because Ishmael just trashes every story he hears. How self-centered do you have to be to buy books just to go "Nope. You're wrong :)" We also learned the Christianity killed the Leavers, and that the Leavers were too lazy to understand that farming helps people. And people are bad because we want to have children, which totally isn't an evolutionary characteristic designed to prolong the human race at all. If Ishmael is so one with the world, why does he hate human instinct? But don't worry, I guess Ishmael forgot to pay rent so now he's been evicted (how the landlord got a gorilla out of a confined area I don't know). Then I guess those Carnival Anonymous meetings never paid off, because he relapsed and is back in the circus. The narrator bribes the worker to talk to the Ishmael (don't know how the worker didn't call the police for a mentally unstable man trying to talk to a gorilla) who tells him that evolution is bad and we shouldn't learn anything. Guess I shouldn't go to school then.
I assume the narrator is still a living organism and not in some comatose style dream, so I guess that has to do with bio.
This book is boring and offensive. Not the religious part, I couldn't care less about that. It's offensive how stupid the plot is. I'm done with this gorilla who can telepathically communicate and knows all there is about man but can't figure out how to pay rent, or how to avoid the circus. I mean seriously, gorillas weigh 400 pounds. If anything, the landlord who got Ishmael out should be in the circus.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteSam, Period 7
ReplyDeleteChapter 9 begins with the narrator arriving at the office to find Ishmael lounging on a cushion rather than behind the glass, which is where he usually is. Ishmael then discusses the history of humans and tells a story of how gods controlled the world and that when humans arrived, they decided to stay away from the tree of knowledge. The Gods believed that the humans would take over all the other animals on the Earth, and the leavers realized this, however the takers did not. Ishmael then tells the narrator about Cain, who represents the takers, and Abel, who represents the leavers. The following day the narrator returns to the office and discovers Ishmael has been evicted and has to join the traveling circus in order to survive. This results in Ishmael not wanting to teach the narrator for a short time, however the narrator convinces Ishmael to continue the discussion. They then continue discussing the takers and leavers.
Throughout these two chapters, not much biology was mentioned, however evolution is touched upon.
I have slowly lost interest in the novel as we have gone on because it does not enlighten me as I have previously been. Everything is a metaphor for something else and they have slowly lost me with the incorporations of the fables to supplement history and human nature.
Katie Kusmin, Period 7
ReplyDeleteIn chapter nine the narrator finds Ishamel sitting on the same side of the room as him, and they are no longer separated by a sheet of glass. Ishmael shows him a timeline of human history with the Agricultural Revolution marked, and draws a ray from it demonstrating the conception and evolution of Taker culture, making it clear that it is not one discrete event ("like the Trojan war"), but an ongoing process of colonization. Then, Ishmael tells biblical stories that illustrate the creation of Taker culture and how they overtook the Leavers. In chapter 10 the guy plays hooky and when he returns for his lesson his gorilla teacher is gone! He finds that Ishmael has joined a traveling circus, as teachers are wont to do, and no longer wants to continue with their lessons for a while. They resume soon after the man convinces Ishmael to talk to him, and the saga continues.
Evolution is the primary "biology" thing here, and Ishmael makes reference to keystone and invasive species with his tale of the Ravenous Locusts.
I like this book, and I don't want to repeat everything I've been saying in this section of all my other comment posts, but I find it interesting.
Eye-sah, Period 1
ReplyDeleteI'm tired. This is going to be sketch. Anyway, CHAPTER 9! King Godrilla has made his move. He escaped from his cage and is one step closer to eating Wido-OOH PICTURES! After the PICTURES! King Godrilla returns to his normal state of things, which is taking an absurd amount of time to explain a concept to a guy who clearly "forgot to take his brainy pills this morning". After all the PICTURES!, King Godrilla flexes his religious muscle and (after a painfully long story about The Fall From Grace) the two have a rapid fire Q&A about religion and apples and humans being pompous and all that good stuff. Now, CHAPTER 10! The real life is a thing! Hallelujah! I feel like I've been living in a cave for 1000 years and I finally see the sun for the first time! Well, Wido has to deal with the age old problem of having to host guests, and meanwhile the city officials have finally asked themselves "how is a gorilla capable of paying rent when he clearly has no occupation and, oh I dunno, he's a GORILLA!?". In response, they kicked King Godrilla out of his apartment and into the arms of a traveling circus. Even though KG is literally in a cage, they just continue their lesson as though nothing is wrong. Thankfully, however, KG finally gets to his main point: Y'all humans best step up cuz y'all ain't special.
As for Biology, they (surprise surprise) talk about evolution as well as things such as predator prey relationships and food chains. Oh, and the Taker population is showcasing exponential growth. And Wido is freaked out by the fact that King Godrilla has escaped his cage, which I think is the proper biological reaction to such a situation.
I think i've figured out my problem with the book. It's far too repetitive! Honestly, half of this book could be cut out and I'd still get the message. I don't need 50,000 different extended metaphors to figure out something that, in the end, isn't that complicated (eg. Humans aint God, Fix dat environment son, Check yo self before you wreck yo self, etc.) liked the pictures. It amused me that a gorilla is better at art than I am. And by "amused" I mean it sent me into a never-ending pit of despair, darkness, and critical self reflection. That's about all I have to say.
This Gorilla escaped from his cage and is now living life like a video. Where the sun is always out and the musics always good. They talk about religion and such so yah know its kinda boring. This gorilla moves into an apartment and pays his rent like a boss. I'm really not so good with this book.
ReplyDeleteBiology! yay Biology! i love Biology! there is biology BECAUSE THE BOOK IS ABOUT A GORILLA
I dont like the book at all and its like whatever yah feel?
Matt, Period 1
ReplyDeleteIshmael is found surprisingly outside of his glass-box thing. I was really expecting something to happen because of this, like Ishmael taking the man on a journey outside of the building, but nothing does. He creates a scenario where gods are deciding which species should have the most guidance, so they consume fruit from the tree of knowledge to help make the decision. He talks about the story of Abel and Cain. I personally thought it was cool how he used that story as a metaphor for the Takers and the non-takers.
After this, Ishmael disappears! After missing several lessons, the man returns to find out that he had been evicted. After tracking him down, Ishmael is annoyed at the man for budding into his personal life. So he bribes a guard to let him have some alone time with Ishmael. He is cool now because the narrator stopped trying to help him. I guess. They summarize what they have covered so far, and talk about extinction of knowledge.
Biology in this chapter:
Evolution
Predation
Gorilla
This part is sad. In an attempt to move the plot forward and create suspense, Ishmael (the 400 pound gorilla) is mysteriously kidnapped and held hostage in a cage. Like, what? Why? It doesn't change the story at all. The man still has his talks with Ishmael, so why would the author do this in the first place? The ideas were cooler this time around though. The author really should've focused on what the book should have actually been about(takers and that stuff) rather than fabricate a story about the psychic gorilla. (and a very boring psychic gorilla. If you are going to give a gorilla paranormal powers, at least go all the way. Telekinesis, precognition, aura-reading, literally anything else than telepathy. my 2 cents anyway). I am waiting for some wild curveball to be thrown, but I'm left with straight pitches over and over again.
Patience Period 7
ReplyDeleteSo the gorilla is now on the other side of the glass. he starts talking about religion so i had to put the book down for a bit. anyway the gorilla tells him that the story of Adam and Eve teaches humanity that they cannot have an advantage. Then the gorilla gets arrested for being a gorilla.
I still dont liike this book
they talk about evolution, adaptation, predation and species.
The narrator find the gorilla on the same side of the glass as him. They discuss a story of Gods and related it to the takers and leavers. Then sadly Ishmael joins the traveling circus but the narrator convinces Ishmael to contine discussion with him.
ReplyDeleteExtinction is discussed as well as predation.
I thought it was random that ishmael would be in the circus again. I wasnt expecting that.